[00:00:05] Speaker A: 3, 2, red 1.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: Podcast studios are popping up everywhere right now, from corporate offices to universities, to internal communications teams. But most of them are not massive broadcast builds anymore. They're flexible, converted spaces designed to make content creation easier and far more approachable.
In today's episode, we're joined by James Tehan, CEO of icann, and Dan Napier, channel sales representative at icann, to discuss how to get started when building a podcast studio. Also, the important points to decide on first and how technologies like ndi, Dante and automation are helping organizations build smarter and self operated podcast studios.
So gentlemen, first off, thanks for joining us today and why don't we jump right into the questions? Right, right. One of the things that Keycode Media has seen across virtually every vertical, right. Corporations, journalism teams, educational organizations, and even internal communications, they're suddenly investing in podcast studios. And podcasts are actually starting to replace and even outperform the traditional webinar format. I'd love to hear your take on this as folks who are providing gear for this specific use case. Why is this?
[00:01:27] Speaker C: Great question, Michael. I want to start by saying, you know, when we as just people consuming content and consuming, you know, videos, we oftentimes a lot of us go to YouTube, right? It's, it's the on demand and a lot of us are consuming and learning things through podcasts on YouTube, right? Or audio podcasts.
So I think one of the reasons, I think a lot of companies are pursuing that is simply because that's where the audiences are, that's where the audience has moved towards.
And so all companies want to be able to reach and connect with their customers in a way that's comfortable to them. And I think this is the format to do it.
I love the question about the difference between a podcast and a webinar.
A webinar is, you know, we, we go on webinars all the time to learn, right? And there's so webinars, to me, at least my perspective, it's, it's more structured.
There's typically like a, some sort of, like, not a paywall but like some sort of form. You gotta, gotta fill up a form, you gotta sign up, you gotta give your information.
Webinars generally are live, right? So you have to tune in a certain time. Granted you can miss it and probably get the recording of it. But the benefit of the live is to be able to kind of, you know, punch in some questions either through text or audio.
Webinars oftentimes have very specific set purposes and oftentimes they're there to deliver.
It's really a factor of sales, right? It's very salesy. You're learning about the product of a company. You're trying to understand if it makes sense for you. You're trying to get insights into what's been happening, maybe in changes in policy or regulations. So you go into one of those webinars, it's much more of a professional kind of a B2B kind of interaction.
And if you think about it from the perspective of a sales funnel, webinars are somewhere slotted where you are as a, as a, as a company who is a sales and marketing part, a company that's hosting a webinar. You want to capture mql, right? And marketing qualified leads to be able to then pass into sales as sales qualified leads.
Podcasts are very, very different. I mean, I'm trying to say that they can exist in both worlds and companies I think should do both. It's just, it serves different purposes.
Podcasts occupy that top of the funnel, the very, very top of the funnel of a business. Brand awareness, brand loyalty and affinity, familiarity, building trust and rapport and understanding the people behind a company. Companies can oftentimes be cold.
And so to have faces like you and I, it really creates a deeper level of connection.
I think for all those reasons, at least from my perspective, companies are moving towards podcasts. It's where audiences love to learn, it's where they feel most comfortable learning.
And it's a way for companies to really get the, you know, on a structural funnel level, capture the top end of a, of a sales funnel.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: We've always had to do ROI and marketing, right? And how are we getting those leads? The time that is spent into putting out a webinar, if someone has to register for it, we have a tangible lead. We can tie some kind of KPI against that.
But to your point, there's, there can be the both worlds, there can be a webinar that then maybe is produced as if it was a podcast. So you have people who are logging in and asking those questions to get that one on one, but are also able to take that recording and then it becomes an after the fact podcast that folks can listen to when their day to day work allows for it. Right. So I think your point that there's a place for both is very important. One of the things we hear quite a bit from clients who want to start out is that they say they want a budget friendly podcast studio. And budget friendly is kind of a loaded term because it could be audio only or it could be a few Cameras. Right. And that's budget. That would be a budget build. So what do these budget friendly podcast studio projects actually look like in the real world? And how would you say that often? Are these studios really just converted conference rooms or unused office spaces?
[00:05:51] Speaker C: I love the fact that you're saying the word budget friendly is a load of work because there really is. Right. There's so much dynamics to what that question is really asking for me. I think budget friendly has a dollar component as it pertains to the cost of equipment and the cost of installation. So there's a cost component. There is, to me a time component. The more complex the bill, the longer it takes.
And to me there's also a component of people. Right. Budget friendly means perhaps simplicity and perhaps that means the difference between we have in house people potentially that have the existing skill set or can learn into some of these skills versus, you know, perhaps this is a production that rivals a television station. And then you're going to really need to hire in some broadcast engineers that have been working in perhaps a studio or station to be able to kind of operate some of the equipment. And I think the budget friendly is also relative to the size of the company. If you're a, if you're a company with an EBITDA of 5 to 10 million, you know, a budget friendly might be like a mid five figure investment, whereas if you are a, you know, a NASDAQ 100 company, well, you know, a million dollars might be considered very budget friendly. Right. So there is, there is definitely that sliding scales, which is why I think, you know, calling it a bit of a nuanced or loaded question is absolutely true. There's, there's a lot of different components to that.
So I think qualifying who the customer is and what their expectations are is really, really important for us to understand what that is. Understanding how quickly they want to go live and start producing content I think is a very important consideration.
And ultimately understanding the organization, the staffing inside is another dynamic that I would look at.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: Yeah. From my perspective, I've built and designed a lot of these type of studios. And typically it is often a conference room or a small meeting space. The customer's got existing and they typically want to turn that into a small podcast room. So there's a few do's and don'ts that I've come across in my time doing this. So if you've got a room that may be more of what I would call a goldfish type room, which has glass walls, that is a room you want to Avoid because the acoustics of that room will be pretty poor. Also, when you're choosing a location for your podcast room, try and locate it away from the main traffic spaces of the building. Because there's nothing worse when you're doing a podcast and you hear people walking backwards and forwards down the corridor or even you hear the girders above the ceiling space moving around.
So typically, some of the things you want to watch out for is you want to take a room ideally that's got drywall because it insulates well. If the acoustic property is still not great, you can very easily add a few acoustic panels. They're very low cost. They do make a big difference. You want a room that's ideally carpeted because that is a great noise reducer as well. And the other mistake I see lots of people make is around the lighting aspect of the room. So either they'll leave the windows open and let that natural light come in mixing with the house lights and perhaps overhead lights.
So the best practice would be really to either blacken out the room itself with blinds or put a neutral density filter across that window space to balance that light.
So it's quite a complex thing because you have to look at what are the priorities. So if I was building a studio, one of the first things I ask the customer is what is their priority for the equipment purchase. So typically a camera is usually where I'd start because the camera quality dictates the whole content. So I would say as doing a budget, I would start with a camera first. Choose a good quality camera. Typically these days it tends to be either a PTZ camera because they've moved so far on in contrast and quality, or it could be an SLR outputting video. High end slr. That's where I would start. Then I would go down to lighting because there's no point having a high end camera if you're trying to light the room with the overhead light because you're creating shadows, you're making the room look very uninteresting and quite frankly it makes you look very unflattering on camera. So a couple of lights is very important.
Now in a room that's got like a T bar scene, that is a challenge.
So I can. We do have a range of products that fit straight onto T bar ceiling. So we've seen this need in the marketplace and we're addressing that. It also addresses the need not to have overhead power is also a cost that you can remove from a budget on a budget that's probably got a small Budget in the first instance. The other thing I would look at is the audio. Again, you want to avoid the consumer grade audio because you want pro audio so it's balanced. And if you're going into a teams or a zoom call, you need an interface that's going to take that in properly. If you try and put it in a balanced source into an unbalanced input, it sounds terrible. So getting that audio right is very important. And if money persists or you got budgets left, a prompter is not a bad addition. I'll tell you why.
Prompters obviously is used for speech reinforcement when you're giving a presentation, but they use way more now for teams and zoom calls and presentations. Because you can be in the call, you can project your presentation onto the screen looking at the camera.
Also have a confidence monitor, which gives you reassurance you're staying framed in a podcast because typically you may be doing it yourself.
So they're the sort of areas I would kind of look at and I would have, you know, look at the acoustics of the room, keep the room into a low traffic area.
Definitely consider lighting because lighting makes all the difference. No point spending 15 grand on a nice camera if the lighting's poor.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: But back to your earlier point, Dan, you were talking about lighting and you know, I've been in the media industry for a while and lighting is probably the thing that I am worst at. I am just absolutely horrible at it. So I can only imagine how difficult this would be for, for folks who don't have a career doing this and have to do it for whatever corporate or whatever podcast they're doing. So how are modern podcast studios simplifying lighting? So folks who aren't video professionals and who are maybe executives or in marketing teams that they can create a professional looking content without needing an experienced production crew.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: So really the best way to manage this is through presets.
So when you install the lighting initially, you determine with the customer the different use cases they're going to have for that space.
And once you determine those use cases, then you would apply potentially two or three point lighting techniques to best light the space.
Once you've got that set up, then you would create a preset so that when that user comes in or that group of people in the same configuration, it could be two or three people. It is a repeatable experience.
If you don't do that, then you will have a very random experience and the user will have, you know, will ultimately not have a good experience.
So presets is ultimately the way to do that and many ways to do that. If you've got a lighting board, you can save it on the board. We have several software applications where you can create presets. We also heavily integrate with the Q sys, which is a very much a corporate control system, which makes it easier for the corporate customer because they're very. They've used Q sys for a long time. So there's many ways to create those presets, but I would say the preset route is the only way to go.
[00:13:22] Speaker B: Again, you bring up so many great points. For our podcast studio here and for many of our clients, we rely on automations through things like BitFocus Companion or Stream Deck.
And we didn't talk about this ahead of time, but all the lights in our studio are ICAN lights and we're controlling them all via DMX and choosing the channel, choosing the universe. And we're able to trigger the intensity, the brightness, the warm or coolness of it with presets on our touch panel right here.
And I think the other thing, and this is maybe a trick of the trade kind of thing, is that I think a lot of people don't consider backlight. They don't consider the hair light. Right. They have the lights in front, but you need that separation. And so we actually have an ICANN light directly behind me and out of camera to get some light around to separate me from the back of the wall. So I think the fact that the ICANN lights have those presets can be controlled by different pieces of software, no matter what your infrastructure is, makes it that much easier and you can configure it on the network. Right. The ICANN lights we have, we can hit via a web browser and make all the changes we need there.
[00:14:33] Speaker C: And just to add what Dan said, three point lighting is a technique that's been around for decades, if not close to 100 years.
And it's something that's classically taught in colleges.
And what that really is is about three independent light sources to light a single person. And it mentions hair light as well as key light and fill light.
3, 4. Lighting is a very important technique and it's one that we offer a VIXA accredited RU curriculum on.
And so we offer that to all of our integrator partners that especially for those that need to retain their CTS certification, every two years, our curriculum gives you four and a half credits. So it's about four and a half to five hours. Of course, it's something Dan put together and it will walk you through all the techniques and the fundamentals of how to achieve three point lighting. And the other important thing about three point lighting is that the lesson we're going to teach you is really about three fixed position, right? So fixed seating, fixed furniture, and all the things so that you're really controlling, you know, where the camera is and where you're going to be.
If you're looking, if you're thinking about like cinematic, right, and following an actor or actress and a talent around, you know, that's a whole different level of three point lighting. And that's a whole, you know, that that requires like years of learning. But specifically as it pertains to like a podcast format where we're sitting largely in a fixed position, that is something that can be taught in a reasonable amount of time.
And adding additionally to what you said, Michael, about preset macros that can control the color temperature and the intensity, if you have those combinations, you're giving a lot of end users the right recipe to succeed with a reasonable amount of learning curve. It's not super easy, but it's not rocket science either.
There's an area where you can achieve that skill set and be able to light a set properly and make it look the outcome that you want. It could be a cooler environment or it could be a warm and intimate environment.
It's the creativity of the production crew that wants to produce the video they want.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: If we move outside the lighting portion of a podcast studio, we obviously have gear like cameras, microphones, teleprompters and all the other gizmos and gadgets that needed to make the production a little bit easier. So what kind of trends are you seeing for podcast studios around that other technology and not just lighting?
[00:17:13] Speaker A: Well, typically you're looking at studio. It depends on the setup, to be honest, because there's two types of podcasts. There's a single person speaking, or there's a group doing a podcast session. So it could be a group around a table or group around two or three chairs.
So that will determine for start how many cameras you potentially need. So we're seeing a lot of people doing between one and three cameras based on this type of use case they're putting forward. We're seeing customers obviously using much more pro audio devices. So they're either using wired professional podcast mics, or they might be using wireless lavalier mics for each of the speakers.
That, generally speaking, is then going into a local sound mixer because it's a bit more involved than just doing a single person. And that mix is then feeding generally Speaking into a production switch or something like a tricaster or something along those lines. And that tricaster is obviously allowing someone to change the shots as the different people speak and obviously mixes the audio masters and records it onto one device. That room may also have a couple of prompters, sometimes depending if they're using that for a term video, so they can see themselves on shots, or if they're in taking part of a podcast call with a third party, they want to be able to see and interact with that person using the prompter itself.
[00:18:36] Speaker B: Excellent.
If we stay on kind of the technology front, right, because there's plenty of people tuned in who are interested in the technology portion. One of the biggest shifts we've seen in the broadcast and now podcast area has been the move from traditional SDI to IP based workflows.
[00:18:52] Speaker C: Right.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: So instead of having one single SDI cable for video in, one SDI cable for video out, and then having some kind of matrix to route this to different places, we're now looking at video over IP or video over ethernet, which kind of allows not just video, but audio too, with things like Dante to be able to route over a network. So instead of having a dedicated cable in and out, you have one cable to rule them all, and it can be routed anywhere with a smaller footprint. So when you are talking to your clients and your customers who are building a podcast studio, how are they exploring the, the utilizing IP over sdi? Are you seeing that as a trend in podcast studios as well?
[00:19:36] Speaker A: Absolutely, we are seeing that change.
Traditional baseband technology SDI is very expensive.
It requires specialist knowledge to install it, maintain it. The beauty about the IP revolution is largely now it's the IT departments of the corporate companies who oversee the operation of the studio. From the technical perspective, it just the maintenance and so on. So having an IP network makes it easier for them to take ownership of that part of the, of this, of the studio. The bigger picture obviously is once you have it on a network and if you have multiple offices, you can start to use networking, that VLAN networking to allow you to have a multi office meeting, which is something you could never have done with baseband video unless you had a lot of money sending it over satellite or lasers down fiber optic cables. So it offers huge advantages when you start mixing NDI as perhaps your video codec, that perhaps with DANTE for audio, you can send control down the same cable. So it could be PTZ for controlling remote cameras.
It offers a whole swoop of opportunity that never existed before.
And again, it's very easy to upgrade because largely the infrastructure, which is the cabling, stays as is and you're upgrading the fabrics of the switches to make it faster. So it's a much easier way to upgrade, much more cost effective. So overall, the IP revolution is a massive change in the industry and it's going to be the future.
[00:21:08] Speaker C: You know, when I think of the IP revolution, right, it started with it, right? Internet protocol.
The IT department owns the Internet.
A few decades ago, the AV industry decided to embrace ip.
They left SDI and Coax behind and they've never looked back.
We're at the inflection point for broadcast where I think broadcast is ready to make that step. And I saw it more evident this year at NAB than past years as a company. Icann, we've been pushing forward on the convergence of broadcast into the IP ecosystem for many years now.
You know, we started with our power over Ethernet lighting. When you set the one cable to rule it all, I chuckled and I laughed because when we were developing our POE lights, that was what I said. I had just, you know, I'm a Lord of the Rings, I'm a lord of fan.
I just remember like, you know, we were talking about, well, how do we design an IP light? And I said, I insisted to the design team that we had one cable, one cat cable to power the light and to control all the data, all the communications of the light. And I was in that meeting, design meeting, I was like, guys, I wanted to be like Lord of the Rings. I want one cable to rule it all. So when you said that, I just laughed at that.
So we started with POE lighting, world's first, and it's really kind of become, it's becoming a standard. I think more and more people are adopting it.
Other places that, where we've pushed forward on IP based workflows and technology, it's the IP teleprompter systems. So all of our teleprompter monitors are NDI and poe. So again, it's the same one cable. We got one cable controlling that monitor, powering it and setting the NDI feed. So that's another example. And obviously a teleprompter is just a monitor with that kind of beam splitter, glass, mechanical kind of infrastructure. So we have that built in.
So those are some of the examples where like we're trying to, we're helping to push all endpoints to be smart, to be IP enabled. And beyond the fact that it's what everybody else is doing, it helps to centralize and decentralize. It's also about the automation. Right. We talked about automation from the beginning of this. You know, IP based endpoints is an important ingredient to automation. It's not requirement. You can have IP controlled lighting board that can still control traditional lighting. Sure. Or you can have IP based.
Brains that can control the teleprompter. But to have every endpoint also be ip, I think it's an important part of making the entire ecosystem that much more flexible.
And yeah, when things are driven by software you can make changes much easier than hardware. Right. And the whole point of linear baseband was it was an endpoint to endpoint thing. If you need an additional run, you have to run more cables. With network based, you just plug it into a switch and it's connected to other switches and now you have a decentralized to a centralized network brains.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: You mentioned the convergence of AV and broadcast and it and I want to pull on that thread a little bit more because as you rightly pointed out, there's been a kind of Venn diagram of bleed over and the bleed over is getting larger and larger. But what we're finding is that they're not stacked on top of each other. There are still considerations. So if you are looking to move to an IP infrastructure for video, you have to make sure the switches can handle it. Just because you can put a cat 5 or a cat 6 in there and it clicks in place doesn't mean it actually will do the thing you need to do. So that means to make sure that the POE rating is high enough to control all the different POE devices and that you're running on a network that has enough bandwidth and that you can set priorities for the kind of protocols that these lights and DANTE and video need to make sure that you're getting the performance you need from those switches. And Dan, I'm sure you can speak to that about maybe things folks should look out for when they are looking to get infrastructure and switches that are specific for video over ip.
[00:25:19] Speaker A: Yes, you're right. I think, you know, there's many things you can approach when doing this. You know, ideally to keep it simple. I've always been a great believer of keeping the video network separated from the corporate network because some of the protocols used are multicast and that can cause a lot of traffic on a corporate network.
Plus of course this day of security you're opening up the secure the studio to risks of external intruders coming in.
So I would always suggest keep the studio environment its own network. You want to ideally separate all the key items away from each other. So, for example, you want to keep the NDI on its own vlan, you want to put DANTE on its own vlan, you want to put the lighting network on its own vlan and perhaps general traffic on a separate VLAN again. Now you can run it as one flat network, but the bigger it becomes, the harder it is to manage. And when you have got a problem, it's really hard to find where that problem's coming from. Separation with VLANs is quite complex, but it does in the long run pay for itself because it gives you a really secure environment at that point. Once you need to get on the corporate network, then you get the network security guys or girls to make you a tunnel onto their network, which will then allow you to link it to other parts of the organization which could be outside of that geographic area, or it could be somewhere in the building. But I'm a great believer saying keeping the network locally, making sure of course you've got the right power budget. So when you're talking about networking today, we're talking about POE for a lot of things. You're talking about your cameras, you're talking about your lights, you're talking about all these peripherals. So the other big importance is making sure you have a switch that's got a big enough power budget.
We happen to be great favorites of Netgear because they have a great range of privy switches and up to 3,000 watts.
So that's a very important consideration. But also when you're linking video like NDI and so on, you really want to start talking about 10 gig networking. You're not talking about one gig switches. So you need to build an infrastructure that has a 10 gig backbone linking to the sub switches. That way you can never oversaturate the network. If you've got six streams of NDI going between switches, you know, you could start to get to a point where you're going to saturate on a one gig network. If you've got 10 gig, you can get 10 times amount of data over that network.
[00:27:43] Speaker C: And one more thing, I mean the rating of the cable, the CAT cable is also a very important thing, right?
I think a lot of people are still using Cat 5 or Cat 5e, but we strongly recommend Cat 6 with at least 24 gauge specifically for our POE lights. That's what's required. And the reason is because when your gauges are smaller, which tends to mean a higher number, you're losing more heat to the cable. And so you don't want that, you don't want your cat cables to get hot, right? So you want the right rating. Generally we rate 6. We recommend Cat 6 or better and we recommend 24 gauge or better, which means or lower. If you're looking at the gauge numbers, just kind of like your speaker gauges, right? Like you know, a 12 gauge versus an 8 gauge. There's a, you know, the 8 gauge is thicker. So similar concept. You don't want to lose too much heat to the cabling. And the last part about cabling is if you plan to run your cables, cat cables, outside of the H vac environment, then you want them to be plenum rated. Again, these are things that your IT professional will be able to consult you on, but these are just for everybody listening. These are just some of the things you want to be aware of.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: If we were to look ahead, what do you think the next generation of podcast studios will look like? We've already talked about video over IP, whether it's NDI or 2110 and Dante for audio. But what do you think these new podcast studios will look like in the future? Are we talking AI driven? Are we talking fully automated?
Just what are your thoughts on what we'll see in the future?
[00:29:21] Speaker C: Great question. I think it depends on.
I think there's two dynamics to it. One is how it's operated and one is, I think, user engagement. I'll start with the user engagement because I think that's really interesting. We started the conversation talking about the differences between a podcast and a webinar.
And one thing I thought about as we're talking about the amalgamation, my thesis is still it lives in its two separate parts of as an organization, you want to do both because they serve different reasons and they serve different audiences.
I would love to see podcasts have that kind of live element to it. Right? Or maybe there are. And maybe I'm just not fully averse in all the ways that podcasts are being labeled. But I love the idea. I mean, the whole point of a podcast is just this like unscripted, genuine, off the cub, you're able to understand what we stand for.
Again, nothing is scripted.
We may understand what the questions are ahead of time, but the answers are not going to be running a prompt off a teleprompter. We're talking live, we're talking off the cuff, we're talking about ourselves. And to be able to open that up to an audience, potentially like an AMA type audience where they can key in or ask, I think that's an interesting dynamic potentially.
And there are existing infrastructures to do that. But it is on the more complicated side, I think, I think there's opportunities for more of that kind of engagement. I've seen that done some ways in some of the.
I think a lot of like, anyways, I've seen it done. I think that's an opportunity moving forward.
The other side to me is the operations side, right? And automation with AI augmentation. What that really means to me is empowering more people within an organization to feel comfortable getting in front of a camera and to be able to do it, to be able to initiate, to be able to create content without necessarily having to kick up a lot of dust. In terms of potentially having to. I mean, the room is the physical asset, so you have to reserve the room. But potentially, you know, I've been in organizations where the IT staff is, and, or the AV IT staff, they're just stretched really thin. They've got much so, so many things going on, right. And so be. To be able to take some of that burden off of them and to create these spaces where a salesperson, a marketing person can just walk in and, and kind of prompt the system to say, hey, I want to do, you know, I want to do a podcast session. And this is the, you know, I want this to feel really warm. I want the lights to be warmer. I want you to kind of be aware of my kind of skin tone, make sure it's optimum for, for the way I look. I want to sit down versus standing up, right? If we can have a system that can be prompted that way and have the room kind of be ready for that person as a salesperson, as a marketing person, as maybe a product expert.
How cool would that be? Right? And they can just largely interface with that.
So there's examples in live communications, I think specifically live communications applications, where I think automation would really, really, really benefit it when it comes to like a lot of very creative, like if you're, if you're shooting a commercial, if you're, if you're doing, you know, more the artistic, creative things, this is where human kind of, you know, we are people, we are, we are inventors, we're creative. We want that kind of element of staffing, right? So AI, there's a place for AI. I think it lives much more in a kind of a live communication environment. And you can have the live communication environment be aesthetically pleasing. It doesn't have to be boring.
In a corporate environment with cubicles and big, bright fluorescent lighting. It can be an environment like this.
It can happen.
[00:33:12] Speaker A: I think AI is really going to take a strong point of helping to set the room up, as you're saying, because the things that get let down now or people don't line their audio up properly, they don't set the lights correctly. So having AI take ownership of that is going to give a much better experience. And then throughout that conversation, it's going to be tweaking the audio levels in real time. It's going to be keeping an eye on the bit rate of the, of the stream going out, because they're the things that often go wrong in a live podcast or a live recording. And I think that's where AI really should be used best, because it's not over. Creative humans still have a very creative touch and we don't want to lose that creative touch, as James was saying. But AI does have a really good place at monitoring QC and helping you set up a predictable experience.
[00:33:58] Speaker B: Well, gentlemen, you've brought up so many good points today. James Tien, Dan Napier, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so much to everyone else over at KeyCode Media and ICANN for joining us for this podcast today.
Thank you very much.
[00:34:12] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:34:12] Speaker C: Same here. Michael, thank you so much.
[00:34:14] Speaker B: Thanks for watching. Broadcast to post. Don't forget to follow Keycode Media on social and contact us about your
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