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32 Red 1 welcome to Broadcast to post the podcast by trusted systems integrator Keycode Media.
Now we've been hosting this show since 2019 and it finally dawned on us we've never made an episode about building a podcast until now.
Over the past few years, Kie Code Media's team has been busy helping clients launch and expand podcasts in all kinds of creative ways. The demand for podcast studios has been wide ranging and honestly, it's pretty eclectic. We've worked with production companies and building rental ready podcast spaces within their facility.
You've also worked with a university in Washington that transformed huddle Rooms and its journalism school into multiple podcast studios, complete with ptz multi camera setups and a centralized control room for recording and live streaming.
We've also helped churches where pastors use podcasts to expand their reach and connect with their communities.
Needless to say, podcasts are everywhere, but each one comes with its own requirements.
Some demand high end cameras and studio quality microphones while others just need a simple low maintenance setup that just works.
At the end of the day, it all comes down to that classic triangle Good, fast and cheap. And what are your team's core requirements?
In this episode, we'll break down the key considerations that you need to think about before building your podcast studio. Plus, later in the show we'll hear from our Emmy Award winning friends at Kentucky Farm Bureau Insurance who are using podcasting as the voice of the agriculture community in Kentucky and dare we say, they're planting the seed. We'll also be joined by the team at Dolby to explore the future of podcasting. They've been at the forefront of spatial audio, helping podcasters pivot to Dolby Atmos and deliver truly immersive listening experiences. If you're joining us live, drop your questions in the chat. Our guests will be back at the end for a live Q and A.
But first, let's kick things off with our very own Mike Kavanaugh.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: Three, two, red.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: One.
Mike Kavanaugh sat down with our VP of marketing, Matt McLain, to briefly talk about how hosting the Broadcast to Post podcast. Yes, the podcast you're attending or watching right now has transformed how we educate customers and have built long lasting communities.
As a quick side note, we were having prompter issues for this recording, hence why Mike is looking down at his questions. Okay, with that out of the way, let's load that clip.
[00:03:50] Speaker C: Hi Matt. Since this episode's all about podcasts, I thought it might be fun to turn the mic around on us. You're the VP of marketing at Kie Code and you actually launched Broadcast a Post. Why do you do that?
[00:04:04] Speaker D: Yeah, well, I think it really starts back to the days when we were starting YouTube strategies. Right back in 2010, we were starting to release videos on products that we sell at our company. We started releasing guides on how to build a studio and topics like that, and we found just good indicators coming from that. Some of these videos got thousands of views. We were never really achieving what we wanted to. On the subscriber level though, that's kind of where broadcast posts kind of fit in. So we we started broadcast post in 2019.
First, it was really simple, just me running technical director. We had a host and guests joining remotely over Zoom. It was scrappy, but it worked. And now here we are, 116 episodes later, we've able to grow over 5,000 subscribers on our channel. And we're building a community with the people who are watching this right now.
[00:05:02] Speaker C: So at 116 episodes, that sounds pretty daunting.
How does that really compare for us to produce a broadcast to post compared to other forms of marketing that we've been doing?
[00:05:13] Speaker D: Yeah, so surprisingly little compared to other marketing channels. We spend about $10,000 a year on the podcasts, mostly light advertising for each episode on Reddit threads, on LinkedIn and other platforms. And the reach we get that from that is pretty huge.
Our YouTube channel, you know, as far as, like, subscribers, our channel went from over 100 subscribers to more than a thousand subscribers each year.
So we're also pulling in about 110,000 views annually. That translates to around 60,000 unique audience members per year.
So if you think about it, that translates to around 60,000 unique audience members per year. That's basically the size of NAB attendees that are joining our YouTube channel on an annual basis. And we're doing it for less than a cost than it would be to book a 10x10 booth at that show.
[00:06:10] Speaker C: That's pretty impressive. And from that perspective, how would you say that our broadcast to post podcast has really built community as well, brand loyalty?
[00:06:22] Speaker D: Yeah, the live stream is really key to that. So the live streaming, basically, and it's kind of weird because the people are here joining us right now, the live stream has become a real community experience. We typically see about 3,000 live attendees across the year. And it's usually in that chat. We're always having lively discussions on that topic. Sometimes controversial, sometimes people just asking questions they need for an install they are doing that day. So people ask questions, they share experiences, and we make sure that to save time for Q and A. So it really feels interactive, like they're getting engaged with our guests. With our hosts, it's much more than just content. It's really relationship building.
[00:07:03] Speaker C: So podcasts are a much different way where people are used to having trade show events, meet and greets, lunch and learn, etc.
How do you feel comfortable with the podcast side of things? And how does that really rank up on its marketing effectiveness for key code media?
[00:07:23] Speaker D: Yeah, and I think that's where it gets really interesting for us. A physical event is it costs between $60 to $180 per attendee to acquire a new customer from a trade show. You're talking 2,000 to $4,000 that we're spending per new customer that comes into us. And, you know, as the cost of living is going up, food's more expensive, hotel ballrooms are more expensive. That is just going to keep going up. So for broadcast to post, the cost per attendee is. Is just $5.
The cost of acquiring a new customer through the podcast, about 200. That's a massive difference. To put it simply, for every dollar we spend on a trade show, we generate about $28 in new customers. But for every dollar one we spend on the podcast, we generate $10,000 in new customers coming to us. So it's really a game changer as we just monthly hit these core topics, remind people that we can help build their TV studios, their podcast studios, their sports stadiums, and just keep that mental deposit that we're here for them and try to provide value for them in that moment. They join these sessions or watch later on YouTube.
[00:08:37] Speaker C: So pretty much from your perspective, podcast scale in way trade shows can't, where we're still getting reoccurring viewership from podcasts, that may have happened a year or two ago.
How would you sort of stack that up against the trade show budgets?
[00:08:55] Speaker D: Exactly. And with with trade show attendance declining and costs rising, digital events like podcasts and live streams are where our industry is heading. Busy professionals, they don't always have time to travel. These days they can't get a budget approved to travel from their manager, but they can check in, participate online for as long as they want and catch the replay later if they get double booked on a meeting.
It keeps us top of mind in ways that's cost effective and sustainable.
[00:09:26] Speaker C: Awesome. And I'd say from our perspective. And thanks for everybody for attending and listening so far today. We really wanted to share and more than happy to talk a lot more in depth about the conceptual, just disruptive opportunities for your organization to bring in podcast into your studio.
I can say also when we first started doing this, we really started saying we sell video equipment, let's really eat our own dog food. But it's really become quite a growth factor for our business, helping us really reach out to more clients and get them very comfortable with us in a format that is not intimidating for them as per say going to a trade show or having to directly call up a sales rep for a meeting.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: Thank you. 302 rep1 launching a podcast can be as simple as recording on your laptop. But if you want professional sound, video and a workflow that grows with your show, then a dedicated studio makes all the difference.
But before you buy your first microphone or camera, it's worth asking some key questions.
Now, as a systems integrator, we here at Keycode Media use these questions to guide our clients towards the right solution for their goals and budget.
So question number one is how many people are going to be rocking the mic? If it's just you, then the setup is simple. But the second you add co hosts or in studio guests, you'll need more microphones, headphone outputs, seating and a bigger audio interface or mixer. So think ahead. Are you building for solo episodes or me? Plus three Number two is what kind of room do you have? The space matters almost as much as the gear. Untreated rooms lead to echo and reverb that listeners will notice. So ask yourself, is this a dedicated room or a shared space? Is it quiet enough or will H Vac and street noise be a problem?
Do you need acoustic panels or even full sound isolation?
So consideration number three what types of microphones make sense?
Dynamic mics are forgiving and they're great in noisy rooms. Condenser mics capture more detail, but they'll also pick up every click and hum. So decide if you want that radio broadcaster, sound or studio grade clarity. And don't forget accessories like boom arms and pop filters.
Number four Will guests join in person, remotely or both in person setups are pretty straightforward, but remote guests mean you'll need conferencing software and echo cancellation and maybe even mix minus setups so they don't hear themselves delayed. If video is part of the show, then think about how you'll display remote participants on screen.
Number five do you need a producer station? Some shows are run solo, others have a producer in the background, monitoring levels, switching cameras or pulling in graphics. So decide if you'll self produce or need a separate control room with with a window into the studio.
Consideration number six will you add video?
Video podcasts are exploding on YouTube, LinkedIn and live streams. A single static camera works, but multi cam setups with lighting, switching and graphics bring the show to another level. Now it's more work, but it can grow your audience significantly.
Consideration number seven Will you share slides or videos or demos?
If you plan to show presentations or product demos, you'll need hdmi, capture, switching and possibly picture in picture layouts. This is especially important if your podcast doubles as a webinar or training tool.
And finally, question 8 what's your growth plan now? You don't need everything on day one. Maybe you start with two mics and then expand to four. Or begin with audio only, but leave room to add cameras down the road.
Think about where you want your show to be a year from now and design with that in mind.
Now, answering these questions up front can save you from truly expensive mistakes. And make sure your studio truly fits your vision. And that's where we come in. At Keycode Media, we've designed podcast spaces for universities, production companies, churches and businesses of every size.
So whether you're starting simple or building a full video studio, our team helps with equipment installation and training so you can stay focused on the content.
And to make that easier, we've created our podcast Starter Bundles. Our audio only bundle is built for two to four hosts with broadcast quality mics, mixers and monitoring. It's Perfect for audio first shows or remote interviews and starts around $1200 up to about $4500.
If you step up to the basic camera bundle, you can you get everything from the audio package plus simple two static camera, video and basic lighting. This is great for polished YouTube or LinkedIn shows. Typically this is around $6,500, up to about 15,000.
And for teams that want full automation, multi camera angles, pro lighting and live streaming, our PTZ Pro Studio bundle delivers the complete experience from about $25,000 and up.
Now your next step is to complete the key considerations we covered today and then reach out for a free consultation. Our engineers will map out the products you need, tailored to your budget requirements and guide you through the best path forward.
Contact Keycode Media today and learn more about our podcast, order bundles and start building your perfect studio.
32 red one.
Recently, the Chicco team partnered with Kentucky Farm Bureau Insurance to design, install and support a state of the art production facility in Louisville. This Emmy Award winning studio now supports everything from corporate messaging and commercials to live broadcasts and podcasts, all built for storytelling around the Kentucky's agricultural community.
Joining me today are two key voices from KFB Studios. Matthew Hilton, manager and podcast host who brings the business and creative perspective. And Austin Anderson, live production supervisor and the technical lead who keeps the systems running smoothly. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us today.
[00:15:39] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Appreciate it for having us.
[00:15:40] Speaker E: Thank you.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: Matthew, let's start with you. How did the let's Get Rural podcast come about? Was it tied to a new studio project or was it developed separately or how did it come about?
[00:15:51] Speaker E: Yeah, so we really, from the start of the design of our studio space, podcast was definitely something we wanted to explore.
We have in the past in our communications at Farm Bureau, we've had radio programs that were just taken from the radio and put on a podcast platform. It wasn't really a podcast as we know them today.
So we really wanted that to be a part of something that we were doing. A lot of the things when we built the entire studio facility were just ideas, more than concrete productions we were going to do. We knew we do a lot of conversations at Farm Bureau, we do a lot of internal trainings for, for folks. And with that, with those conversations, why not have a podcast? So why not have people come in and talk about their lives in agriculture and farming or, and use this space for other things like voiceover work and those kinds of things. So, so we knew we needed a, a soundproof location, some good audio mics, up to three or four people can be on at one time. And so that's really as much as we knew when we started buying equipment and, and working with key code on trying to find the right, the right answer to all that. So and then from there on we, we knew it was probably going to be agriculture based. Farm bureaus are interesting.
All, all farm bureaus throughout the country are agriculture organizations, kind of the voice of agriculture in each state.
And we're no different in Kentucky.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: Well, obviously when a company starts a podcast, there's obviously a business use case, but more often than not, the ones that I find that succeed have community goals. Right. They're actually tied in the community. It's not just something to make money off of. So I'd love to hear more what your kind of business and goals were for the community that you were hoping to achieve with the podcast.
[00:17:44] Speaker E: Yeah, I think, you know, the Farm Bureau from the, from the agriculture side is really gathering and having conversation about issues that are dealing with farmer business issues. So we have lobbyists on, on staff that work for the Kentucky Farm Bureau Federation, which is that agriculture side.
So really like at the heart of what the organization has been for over 100 years, it has been bringing these farmers who live lots of times acres and miles away from each other together to talk about issues that they're dealing on their farm. So that was a lot of it. It's not really, that's what the federation is. It's a, it's a, a vehicle to bring those farmers together. They have young farmer programs, women farmer programs, middle aged farmer programs, frankly is what they have. Lots of different programs to bring these farmers together to, to kind of compare issues that each are having on their farms and then try to find solutions to fix that. So a podcast talking about those kinds of things was really important. I think as a communicator here at Farm be able to do. The other thing is just celebrating rule Rural life.
The podcast that we do is called let's get Rural, as in kind of like let's get real.
And it's with me and a young lady named Renee Carico. Renee is an actual Aggie. She grew up on a farm.
She works for the federation side. And I'm just the video guy that came to Farm Bureau 20 something years ago and almost became like an adopted Aggie at that.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: I think. Austin, maybe we should ask you a few questions because you were the technical point person for the studio.
I know this could be a very long answer, but can you kind of walk us through some of the big decisions? The microphones, the acoustics, how you were recording and then delivery, what was Kind of your process in deciding what tech you should be using and what direction to go.
[00:19:40] Speaker B: Right. Well, I really think, you know, Kiko had a huge hand in that and we were able to work with some really talented guys to really guide us through that because, you know, I come from a video background as well, all video production and, you know, a lot of Run and gun kind of documentary style shooting a lot of the times.
And with that comes, you know, really just, hey, where can we stick a mic and how can we grab audio? The. The best way we can.
We, we do appreciate audio and I, I've learned to appreciate it over the years. Just what goes into really the audio engineering side of things.
Crafting it and making it. Making a soundscape full of sound effects and good music and dialogue that all blends together well.
But, you know, my experience with it from like the crafting side of it and the post production side really just pretty much didn't exist outside of just doing stuff out of Premiere Pro or, you know, Final Cut and things like that back in the day. And so Pro Tools and all that was really new to me. Now, you know, setting up all these microphones and everything, it's. It's, you know, you can go into it and kind of get how a mic plugs in and everything, but just knowing, you know, how to create the best sound and then how to get that into a system to mix it. This is the first time, I mean, this has just been a huge growth moment for me really, with this whole build. And I learned so much down to, you know, the video side of it in the video studio and then building out these control rooms and then this, this podcast studio. We knew we wanted, like Matt said, we knew we wanted one and we knew we wanted just, you know, kind of four mics to hang out, but learning how things like Dante can tie everything together, how it needs to flow, where I can talk to them in the middle of show, but, you know, I could talk to our host, but maybe not the guest and just kind of give them like, hey, you got, you know, we've been doing this for 30 minutes. You know, kind of give them some. Some time or say, hey, you know, you might need to sit a little closer to the mic. I can hear an echo or something like that.
Learning how to do that and then learn how to bring it all into Pro Tools. We use Pro tools to edit all this together.
Actually took a class through Key code on Pro Tools.
[00:22:00] Speaker F: Keycode education.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Yes, key code education.
[00:22:03] Speaker E: I'll say this so there's Three of us. All right.
I'm the talker, Michael's the shooter, and Austin's the smart one. So that's really how this. This is how this happened. So we had to help build this thing, and someone had to. Of the three of us, you know, process what Key Code was saying we need. We needed someone here at Farm Bureau that kind of understood. We had some help with our IT department here as well. But really, it was. It was a lot about Austin and his willingness to be wrong and learn and go research something real quick to at least not sound like an idiot. And then growing, like, all this stuff, he keeps this whole studio rolling.
Today he did a setup so we can do this because we don't have cameras in this podcast thing. So I will say he's done a great job of keeping us going and allowing the creativity just to flow when stuff just works. And that's a really credit to him. It's credit to Key Code and their support, so.
[00:23:04] Speaker F: Well, thank you.
[00:23:06] Speaker A: I will say, more often than not, when Kiko goes in to design any facility, whether it be a podcast studio or, you know, an edit bay or master control, there's always some lines in the sand. The technology that we have to use or things that have to be accomplished. Were there any kind of like. No, I like AKG mics. We want to use AKG mics or. No, we're a sure house.
[00:23:26] Speaker G: We prefer.
[00:23:26] Speaker A: Prefer. Sure.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: We.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: Was there anything. Any lines in the sand, like, build around this, build. Make sure we use this kind of tech?
[00:23:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
I mean, we already had these RE20 mics, so we kind of just wanted to hang on to those. We have some shure mics with it as well.
I've noticed they need a little bit more preamp behind them to get going, so we kind of just use these and then.
But I mean, everything else was just so new that we really didn't have any footing to say as far as the audio side. We need. We need this because we use this. I mean, we know. I mean, it was.
You know, we were using. I mean, we were using road mics and wireless road mics for field cameras. We're very. We're very much a field team to start with.
[00:24:13] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: And so sitting still and doing your work is. You're not used to that. You're used to having it on your shoulder and doing the run and gun kind of thing?
[00:24:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a lot of it. And, you know, I've kind of taken on more. So being at the office and doing the Studio stuff.
So, you know, on the video side, there was definitely. We wanted our field, our Canon C300 field cameras to stay in the studio. We really liked a cinematic look on video rather than a studio camera.
[00:24:43] Speaker A: And I think that that plays into something else I kind of wanted to touch on is that, you know, the trends that we've been seeing over the past several years, decades, has been less people to do, more work, so not requiring a football team's worth of folks to run a podcast. So I imagine that there were some discussions on what kind of crew would you need to run the entire facility to do a podcast? Would you need baker's dozen? Could you do it with just three people? Were there kind of things that were adjusted so you could run this with kind of a skeleton crew?
[00:25:18] Speaker B: I'd say so. I mean, I'm not sure about on the podcast side.
You know, the production side of it is pretty simple.
So we're. We didn't really go into this thinking like, oh, man, we're really going to be short on that podcast. I think we probably went into it more being we're going to be short on the video side. Yeah.
But the podcast really kind of fell in place and we always knew we wanted to do it. And it, it. The. I guess the struggle with doing a podcast more than anything is the producing of it, finding people, finding it, keeping it regular, keeping.
Yeah. Just good content that keeps flowing week to week.
Production side of it, creating a podcast, it's not. I don't want to say it's easy, but it's not too terribly hard, especially if you don't do video.
[00:26:05] Speaker E: Yeah. I think video is something that is a part of podcast now. It's something that, you know, we talk about evolving in any way that could be a way we do it.
A lot of our guests are farmers and it's in the middle of harvest. Them leaving, driving four hours to come here on a good day when they could be doing harvest, it's pretty hard. So the video element, there's a lot to how we. Why we decided audio only.
Not just from a technical standpoint, being maybe unable to do it, but it really is. It's these folks. Can they even come here at all?
[00:26:43] Speaker A: To start with, podcast listeners and viewers only see what the finished product is. Right. So maybe you can walk folks through what does a typical podcast production look like? Both from a technical level, which hopefully is kind of set it and forget it to some extent that. But also the creative portion of that. What does a typical podcast production look like?
[00:27:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:05] Speaker E: So Renee and I really think of the, pick out the guests within our experience in her experience in agriculture and my years of experience at Farm Bureau, knowing farmers, we really work together to kind of think of topics that we want to talk about, issues that are going on, things that are going on in rural communities in Kentucky. And then we try to lean into that and find guests that do that.
One joke that we do is like, all right, we, we'll pick a person and say, are they fun?
You know, like, can they, you know, sure, they're maybe perfect and they got all the check marks, but are they fun? Would they come in and. And just have. Have a laid back, fun conversation?
So that's really it. We have, we do a little bit of editorial meeting between me and her.
We, we pick some folks and. And then I'm really, I would say the producer of it. Her job is. She's the commodity division director for the federation. So she doesn't, she's not a podcaster.
[00:28:01] Speaker B: She.
[00:28:02] Speaker E: We just found a lady that can talk and talk and talk and knows everything about agriculture.
So she's a great, a perfect person to do this and loads of personality. Where I've had experience scheduling and calling folks and producing videos and now, now podcasts. So I really take it from there. We usually get, you know, for this audiogram, we get a headshot from them and you know, those kinds of things. And I try to encourage them to come here in our nice little podcast room because it is better. There's just more engaging when you have some live right here.
But, you know, we just try to work with what they can give us as a, as a guest. And the technology allows us to have them just call in working even through some of our, our security. We are an insurance company, so there's some security to, to how we, we operate.
[00:28:52] Speaker A: And I don't want to gloss over that at all because as you pointed out, you're working with folks who talking into a microphone isn't their first profession. Right. So are there some tricks or are there some things that you've done to prep content to keep the show engaging for folks who don't make a living talking on a microphone day to day?
[00:29:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we coach them when they come in.
Matt actually coaches them where we kind of tell them to, you know, get comfortable, move the mic, you know, at. Find your comfortable position first, then move the mic to you.
We, you know, put the headphones on. We'll let them just sit in here and chat for a little bit.
You know, I Think both Renee and Matt do a good job of just loosening them up and just talking to begin with. And we're not. I'm not even rolling yet.
So we do a lot to get them, you know, bringing water and all that good stuff.
We do have a. At the beginning of the show, we have, I guess for the first few podcasts we did, I noticed that became a lot of just the guest speaking for a long time, and then, you know, Matt or Renee would kind of pop in with a question. But then it was just a majority of the guests kind of owned the show and trying to create that banter, but back and forth. So I think that has developed a lot more where there's a lot more banter now going forward.
[00:30:18] Speaker E: But, yeah, I think talking to the folks is the biggest thing. I get on the phone before them, too, and kind of just tell them, you know, the more you're just. The more you've just kind of fall into the conversation, the better you're actually going to do. And you let us worry about you saying something you shouldn't say.
[00:30:33] Speaker A: What I absolutely love is that when I. When I asked that question, the first thing you came back to me with was people will stop me and say, remember when you said this, this, and this? And I think that is what kind of is the heartwarming part, right? That's where the. That fills your soul, that gives you that passion to keep doing this, and you led with that instead of. Well, our metrics say this, this, and this.
So I love the fact you led with that. But I do. I'd be remiss if I didn't bring up, you know, what is some of the feedback or results and kind of a more tangible metrics.
Have you seen a huge increase in engagement? Have you seen more folks proactively reaching out and wanting to work with you? What have you kind of seen on that end?
[00:31:21] Speaker E: You know, our numbers are. Our community's small, so we're targeting a community that's not real large in the first place. Our numbers are modest because of that, probably, and.
But we hear from the right people. I think that's a big thing. And we talk to people throughout the state. I think a big part of doing a podcast, too, is it's trying to hit a different demographic. If you go to a lot of Farm Bureau events, it's an older demographic that's actually at the Farm Bureau events. And I think they're always searching for ways to engage younger farmers, teenage farmers, even.
[00:31:56] Speaker B: The American Farm Bureau has a conference every Year and changes in a different city, and it's all the farm bureaus throughout the country get together. So we, the, we decided to kind of take the podcast on the road for that. And we went and we interviewed some people that we knew we could only get in person throughout the country at that conference. So that was a cool moment. And I think we're going to try to expand on that every year where maybe we're just out and seeing more. Like we kind of did it in a closed room. Hey, come in here, you know, and we'll record this podcast. But we even thought, like, what if we just did it out, you know, in the middle of the show floor somewhere or somewhere off in the lobby where everyone can see us walking by and kind of promoted that way.
[00:32:40] Speaker E: Yeah, you got to, you got to look at your, your comparable podcast. You got to look at it other farm bureaus, for instance, as a good one. We go to immediately and see what are they doing, what are their numbers and, and how are we doing from there.
[00:32:52] Speaker A: So hindsight's 20 20, and obviously this was a long process to get the podcast going and get all the bugs worked out and make sure it's a smooth operating machine. What would you share with folks who are just looking to have their own podcast and build their own podcast studio? What do you wish you knew then that you could share with folks now?
[00:33:13] Speaker E: I think the trying to promote it, trying everything you can, and understanding the slow burn element of it, that it does take a little bit of time.
I think having people want, people want to listen to podcasts where they feel like they're sitting there having a good time with the conversation as well. If it's a conversation podcast, you know, I think we would probably not be so Q and A about it. I think that's from a, from a creative standpoint of how we do it, we would interject more. And I think people listen to the podcast more than we probably realize for Renee and I.
So the things we've been doing where we're. They're getting to know us by being. That's what they're coming back for. And hopefully maybe that particular one, they're listening a little more because they know who the guest is.
But we have to understand that, like you listen to Joe Rogan, a lot of times we're Joe Rogan. Not again, the zero to Joe Rogan.
But, you know, a lot of those guests are, are important and they make, definitely make maybe a little pop in listenership on one podcast or another. But leaning into your Your host a little bit. I think also when we started, we had a lot of different types of audio and we were trying maybe a little too much. I think we're simplifying a little bit too, where people are getting what analytically people were listening to the most when we were, when we were posting podcasts where we've refined it down to doing more of that and less of the other thing. So, you know, I don't really hate that process. I wouldn't say that that was a bad process because it could have been one of the other things we were doing. I think sometimes you just got to try things and see what sticks and this per ton. But I think the biggest recommendation is start.
You don't have to have all your ducks in a row.
Technology wise. It's nice when, when everything works and you're not just fighting that all the time. So maybe definitely make sure your text in. In the right spot so that you can just have a free conversation if right in the middle. Every time we were having a conversation, we have to stop because something is messed up or, you know, it kind of. You lose some flow and those kind of things. So I, I don't know if I answered your question. I said a lot of things, but I think just do it. I think you'll get better at it.
[00:35:36] Speaker A: Well, gentlemen, if you could stick with us for a few more minutes, we're going to do some question and answer. Normally we have a lot of questions coming in and I'm sure they're going to want to pull even more nuggets of information out of your brain. So can you stick around with us for a few minutes?
[00:35:47] Speaker E: You bet.
[00:35:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:49] Speaker A: Excellent. Three, two, Red wine.
We're diving into something that's generating a lot of buzz. Immersive podcasting with Dolby Atmos. Now, let's address the elephant in the room. First, Dolby Atmos podcasts aren't natively supported today on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, the two biggest podcasting platforms. But if history is any guide, it's only going to be a matter of time. Think about when YouTubers started shooting in 4K and HDR, before YouTube supported it. Those creators were ready on day one when the features dropped and it paid off. The same opportunity exists right now for podcasters with immersive Audio.
Joining me today are two people on the front lines of this shift. From Dolby Laboratories, we have Tom McAndrew, senior technical manager of Content Relations. And from Follow Happy Productions, we have CJ Drummiller, head of sound and owner who's already putting immersive podcasting into practice.
Thanks for joining us today, gentlemen. I greatly appreciate it.
[00:36:51] Speaker G: Thanks for having us.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: All right, so let's start with the big picture. For those who are uninitiated, for people who might only know Atmos from cinema, what does immersive audio mean in the podcasting world? And, and what's Dolby's vision for how this changes the way podcasts are made and experienced?
[00:37:09] Speaker G: So, you know, whenever I set up a conversation about podcasting with Dolby Atmos, I kind of get a look from some people about, well, why podcasting is two drunk guys sitting in a garage sharing one microphone.
[00:37:20] Speaker D: Right.
[00:37:20] Speaker G: But you know, there's a lot of podcast genres that are really low hanging fruit for just really impacting the experience by adding immersive audio. So think about narrative fiction and true crime and sleep and meditation and documentary content.
Lots of podcast content is ready made for immersive audio. And honestly, podcasting has been using 20 year old technology, stereo MP3. And so Dolby really sees this as an opportunity to raise the bar.
Atmos started in the cinema, then we went to streaming originals, live sports, music, et cetera. You know, podcasting is kind of the next frontier and we're really excited about the growth that we've had so far.
[00:38:00] Speaker A: Thank you for breaking that down for us, Tom. I appreciate it.
Now, cj, you're already producing podcasts in Atmos. Can you share how you're using immersive audio for these podcasts? Does it work for certain genres like Tom mentioned storytelling or fiction? Or can it enhance just about any type of podcast?
[00:38:18] Speaker F: Yeah, I think the first, you know, leaning into the narrative and the fiction, the sound design aspects of where we can, what we can do with that, that with the immersive, is now something that's able to really trigger the imagination in ways we haven't been able to do that before, especially with the idea of binaural rendering and the idea of really being in the room.
The nice thing now is what we're seeing also is kind of a, almost what it would be, a talking head, but also able to add little splashes of design and things that are really, I would say, increasing the attention span of what would maybe just be a dialogue show. Now we're able to add little subtle hints and then maybe even some storytelling to where we really can dive into the immersive side of the imagination and kind of inspiring some of those visions. Even if it's an audio only format, which is kind of my passion, is where we're leading with audio now. It's just a matter of painting those pictures in a deeper way than what we've been able to do before.
[00:39:24] Speaker G: I would also add that we don't want to pigeonhole Dolby Atmosphere podcasting into strictly storytelling.
We're talking to talk podcasters about, look, there are titles on Netflix, for example, where it's say, a talkie movie, but they still create it in Dolby Atmos. And there are subtle things you can do in the body in the show, but just right from the ta dum at the top of the show, we're kind of communicating the message that you're hearing something special. So even a talk podcast that's largely in the front of the room, there's a lot you can do with theme songs and bumpers and maybe rolling clips, things like that. You know, it doesn't have to be wall to wall things flying around behind you. Dolby Atmos just gives you more possibilities for talk as well as other genres.
[00:40:06] Speaker A: Thank you for clarifying that because I think often people jump to that conclusion and kind of clarifying that it can be used for more talking heads, for lack of a better term, content I think will answer a lot of questions. The first question we normally get asked when we talk about new technology is what are the metrics? Right. And so what I want to ask both of you, both from a word on the street as well as tangible metrics, is what are you both seeing in terms of results?
Are you seeing retention being longer listeners sticking around longer? Are they engaging differently, maybe going on social media and discussing it, or is it still kind of too early for hard data? And even anecdotes would be great here.
[00:40:49] Speaker G: So we have over 10 podcast streaming services all around the world, podcast and audiobook that are already using Dolby Atmos today. The biggest example is Audible, primarily audiobooks. They've also folded in some other content from Wondry, you know, as part of the same family and yeah, from some of our partners. I can't say, you know, I can't share their research myself, but yeah, they are absolutely seeing that there's much more listener retention with an immersive experience versus a stereo experience.
So I know that's a squishy answer, but the short version is yes.
[00:41:22] Speaker A: And cj, have you been getting feedback word on the street from people who are talking about the immersive podcast and how interested they are?
[00:41:30] Speaker F: Yeah, I think the, the, the amazing thing is really when you get the chance to go and sit in a room and just sit, sit and listen to the immersion and just to watch the face and watch someone for the first time come in and sit down and listen. In Atmos, especially in a room, it's just pure joy, I guess. Pure joy. Especially as a sound designer, as a mixer, to be able to express your story in a way that connects on a deep level, like it does when you're able to listen to this. And not just in a room, but also the, you know, the head tracking that you can do even with headphone presentation, the down mix of the binaural and being able to perceive like height and depth and now, you know, stuff that's maybe from behind us walking up, it's just a total playground for someone that loves sound design and be able to tell stories in this way. And so it's just really a new world. And I guess it's not new. We've been around for a while now and it's a technology that's constantly advancing and getting easier and easier. So it's just, yeah, I would say overwhelmingly positive on the, on the reviews.
[00:42:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:43] Speaker F: What, yeah.
[00:42:44] Speaker G: And also what we've heard from mixers is that, you know, it is a bigger paint box and you don't have, you know, with audio only entertainment, you don't have the tyranny of the screen. You have to put the sounds as they relate to the screen effects.
One true crime podcast mixer. I talked to John Bowen. He was one of the early guard that started in Dolby Atmos early along with cj.
He gave a great example of when you're doing true crime. Okay, there's the scene where the host is interviewing the police detective and you're kind of in the audience and that's in front of you. But then you switch to a recreation of the murder or what have you. Now you're the protagonist, you're the victim, and things are happening all around. So you can define the audio vocabulary not just for a whole show, but even scene by scene. And again, it's deeper immersion into the storytelling.
[00:43:32] Speaker A: Then let's get into the nuts and bolts of this. I mean, that's kind of what I like to roll around in. Right. So, Tom, why don't we start with you? If someone wants to try producing an Atmos, what do they need? Why don't we start with the bare bones? What's needed on your journey?
[00:43:46] Speaker G: So the first thing I want to say is we're not trying to sell you stuff. We do have our Dolby Atmos renderer application that we will sell you.
However, we're Thrilled by The fact that DAWs that are Dolby Atmos capable have now integrated native rendering, so you don't need a Dolby product at all.
So Pro Tools and Apple Logic Pro and DaVinci Resolve and Nuendo and Cubase and Persona Studio One, we're getting more and more DAW platforms that are Dolby Atlas capable and right in the DAW itself. Again, you don't need the Dolby application if you don't want to use it. So in terms of mixed rooms, and CJ can actually speak to this because he totally rolled his own and did an amazing job of it. But you know, with sound for picture, like if you're delivering to a Netflix or a Disney, there's a request requirement that you have to have a minimum 7.1.4 room configuration. So that's left, center, right, pair of sides, pair of rears, and then four overhead speakers basically in a box around the listening position. We know budgetarily that's not practical for a lot of podcasters. So you know, that type of setup is recommended at least for playback pass, you know, maybe even a consumer style listening space versus a professional. But lots of podcasts have been mixed in Dolby Atmos on headphones. The binaural output rendering in the professional tools allows for that and it translates to speakers very, very well.
[00:45:10] Speaker A: And cj, that brings up a great point that maybe CJ you can address is that when we're taking existing facilities or facilities maybe that have just been deployed recently, but don't have the immersive component to it, are we looking at upgrading microphones?
I mean, Tom already talked about speakers, but are there microphones, microphones that make this easier or could we use legacy microphones? What are some of the things that you put into place when you rolled your own?
[00:45:35] Speaker F: So the beautiful thing about it is you don't change any. You don't necessarily have to change any source of your sound. There are flashy, nice, cool things that are out there that can record directly into this format. But the beautiful thing is you're really looking at using mono sourced objects or monosourced tracks that you can then place in a 3D space. And so with what Tom was talking about, yes, it's awesome to have a room, but the beautiful thing about what this tech does is it's a scalable thing. So when you can start where you're at right now with even if you're only mixing on a 2.0 or just headphones or binaural rendering. The beautiful thing about. And people get kind of caught up on the number of speakers or whether it's a 9.1, you know, like, how many magnets do we need in this space? Right. So what the cool thing is, though, is if you stop thinking about thinking about the number of speakers and just start to think about a 3D cube space, once you have that space set up to where, at least even if it's in your brain, that I have this 3D space where I can now take that mono object and place it anywhere in that space. And if I have this configured correctly, that will scale up to from the smallest Atmos room to the biggest theater. As long as you have that one ADM or that master file, your location of that audio will now preserve, you know, no matter where that story is told. So the beautiful thing is the scalability. So when I started, I had to jump in super fast. I started in with headphones and just started. And then I. Then I started with a 5.1.2. I had 2.
And just set up objects to where I knew I'm operating in a 3D space where those things will now transfer. So now that I have the full rig, I can go back and forth to where I know that those 3D elements are going to translate.
[00:47:29] Speaker A: So during the onset, I mentioned Apple and Spotify and the fact that they don't support Atmos yet.
So when, not if, it comes to the platform, how should podcasters think about future proofing their content today so they're ready to stand out when immersive podcasts go mainstream?
[00:47:46] Speaker F: Yeah, so the future proofing of trying to get into where you know, you're ready for Atmos when you're ready to make that jump is really about the isolation of those channels. So if you've got, you know, multiple people talking, you're going to want to keep those, you know, on a separate channel just in case you want to spread things out. So anything that ends up on the same channel is going to be a little tougher to spread out. You can pan it and post if you want to, but I would say as much individual tracks, you know, the ISO tracks as you can, you can preserve. That way you have the freedom to, you know, move things around as much as you'd like.
[00:48:18] Speaker G: And one thing I would say about deliverables is that, you know, Dolby Atmos in our mind is always the hero mix, because you can easily and automatically derive a stereo output from that.
Literally, once you have your Atmos mezzanine file, you click rerender to stereo and go get a cup of coffee.
The Atmos tools give you the opportunity to also create Binaural output. Binaural is great for professional monitoring when you don't have a speaker based environment. But I would say we strongly recommend not releasing actually to consumers in Binaural because the thing is, and by the way, Binaural refers to a headphone experience where it still sounds immersive, it still sounds like you have things in front of you, behind you, above you. You know, it's, it's, you know, phase and delay and EQ trickery that makes two channels actually sound like a full sound field.
But only on headphones. Again, Binaural sounds awesome on headphones, but it only sounds awesome on headphones. And a lot of people do listen to podcasts on headphones, but just as many people also listen on smart speakers and laptops and tablets and cars actually. So there's about 20 auto OEMs now that actually have Dolby Atmos in cars today. And so we're super excited about that. To me, that's where I listen to all my podcasts. It just helps the miles go by. But Binaural, again, it's great on headphones, but it kind of breaks on speakers. So if you're listening for example in a car or a living room, it's not going to be a great experience. So you know, for now, for non atlas capable ecosystems, I'd say hey, just release in straight stereo, but you know, absolutely create in Dolby Atmos for when more platforms light up.
[00:50:00] Speaker A: Well gentlemen, this has been a fantastic look into the next era of podcasting.
Obviously, immersive audio just isn't about the surround sound. It's about telling listeners or pulling listeners deeper into the story. And then as creatives CJ it makes what you do even more interesting because now you're able to tell a story in a completely different way that historically hasn't always been there. Thanks for watching broadcast to post.
[00:50:26] Speaker G: Please make sure to subscribe to the podcast to receive future episodes, follow keycode.
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[00:50:35] Speaker G: And post production technology content.
[00:50:37] Speaker A: See you next time folks.
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